These rules of thumb can really be off. I am 70 this year, which would imply a max heart rate of 150 and a zone 2 ceiling using your formula of 110. I can hit mid 170s in a hard workout, I figure my max is around 185. Had a Vo2max test (50.2) and the top of my zone 2 is 143 according to the results. Try to keep my pure z2 workouts below 130, but that is still 20 higher than the formula.
Amazing work Richard - what an impressive fitness level. Thanks for sharing. It sounds like your zones are accurate based on your testing (top of zone 2 = 143). Formula is just a starting point and as we get fitter, we can push our Zone 2 HR (and capacity) higher. Further, the Zone 2 can vary day-by-day. Personally my Zone 2 ranges from 120-150 depending on sport, recovery status, altitude, etc.
Richard, I can relate. At 78, I'm hitting z2 at a little bit lower HR, but still way above either formula. Wonder if Dr Kelly could comment on whether RPE factors into his understanding.
Younger and Older ages skew the "formula" at times. It is just a starting point. Use RPE (probably 3-5 on scale of 10), talk/breath test (first deep breath corresponds to top of Zone 2) and then more specific testing such as sub-maximal lactate testing to hone in on specific areas. Hope this helps. I love the commentary and learning from each other! Jake
Just did a really hard hill session. Hit 178 on the last of six reps, which is the highest I have ever seen! Definitely not z2. What do you think that corresponds to as a maximum heart rate, I have been guessing around 185 as I said.
So hard to know. I think you need to see HR to count it personally. Gordo Byrn shared a max HR workout a while back I’ll try to look for. As long as you felt good, great work on that effort!
I've been thinking of this and reread your article. I believe using the Perceived Rate of Exertion may be more appropriate instead of chasing numbers . I hope I came to a logical/useful conclusion.
Great stuff. I really appreciate your take on 4 x 4 protocol. It’s something that gets recommended but is entirely impractical (IMO) when it comes to sustainability and consistency.
Thanks Justin. This means a lot coming from you. I think I successfully completed the 4x4 once in my wife. It was awful. Hard to do it again. And, most of us don't even need to exercise that hard. I rarely do!
After just coming out of a hard re-set where I had totally over trained and was stressed out and sleeping poorly, this is helping me re-calibrate.
I’m a 60 yr old female and according to my Apple Watch my max HR is around 185 and my vo max hovers around 30.
It was very hard to stay under 130 bpm but also a good affirmation that less can be more. I was doing 2 Tabata workouts, one Swedish 4x4 and strength trading 2-3 x wk. For me, turned out to be totally unsustainable.
I’m sorry you were stressed, sleeping poorly and over-trained. I’m so glad you made the decision to reset and re-calibrate. Great work with the HR cap. Personally, since my late 30s, I’ve found it difficult to do more than 1 hard day per week. The goal is to stay 50 weeks in a row of a similar program - this is where real gains come from. Sustainable, repeatable workload that stack and compound. Keep up the great work Lisa!
Love the article Jake and the great community of questions here! Thank you. One question for you... Every Sunday I play this sport called ultimate football (similar to ultimate Frisbee but we use a football). The game lasts about 2.5 hours and involves many bursts of running at full capacity with short rests. As a 50 year old my endurance is generally as good or better than the people I play with who are 20-30 years younger. Wondering where sports like this fit in the model? I think there's a lot of zone 4 (and 3) effort there. The fun aspect of playing it with this wonderful community has been a priceless for me and my health. Gives me a goal every week for learning my body on a more subtle level as it concerns recovery, training and strength. The joy component is a game changer and something I recommend to clients and friends to find and continue with once they do. Thanks again for all you do!
Shai - Thanks for sharing & engaging. I love ultimate Frisbee and it sounds like the football version is also great. I would treat this workout as your primary high intensity workout of the week with Zone 3, 4, 5. The remainder of your week is supportive recovery work - baseline Zone 0 (think 10k steps a day, taking the stairs, more standing, generally being active) and base building/maintaining Zone 1 & 2 (think Maffetone HR cap as a starting point). Based on your fitness, you might be able to do a short interval Zone 4/5 session mid-week. Here's how I would structure it if it were me: Saturday - EZ day 0-60 minute Zone 1. Sunday - hard/fun/long Game, Monday - EZ day - (off) to 60 minutes Zone 1. Tuesday: Zone 2 (aim for 60 minutes), Wednesday Zone 1 build to Zone 2 60 minutes, Thursday Primarily Zone 1-2 60 minutes (could be day to do a short interval session 12-16 minutes of higher intensity with equal recovery if you feel it helps), Friday 60 minutes Zone 1-2. Keep up the great work and life is about enjoyment.
This is such a detailed post; I'll have to read and re-read a few times to store these lessons in my memory bank. I really appreciate these specific details because I can instantly match each step with what I have done exercising throughout my adult life - most of my adult years precede Garmin watches and other user-friendly data-gathering devices! If most of your readers glean even half of what I do, they, like me, are learning useful lifetime information. Our Bodies, Our Health. No one else is in charge - not our mommy, not our doctor, not our spouse. Thank you for User Friendly Education that is FREE!
Thanks for reading Lillie. I'm glad you're getting something out of this and these articles. I find that folks who exercise or listen to their bodies without devices can learn to use devices really well. Never rely on a watch, device or app. Listen to your body and "feel" how you are doing. Then verify with a device, app, etc. Thank you for the wonderful comments. Let's keep learning together!
Spot on with the one time per week going hard. My “hard” day is a mountain bike ride. Done more than once per week (especially in the heat) is a recipe for excessive fatigue, crappy sleep, uncontrollable hunger. Once per week, however, keeps me sharp.
This is perfect. Personally, I have to be motivated to go harder. The key is to only work hard enough (intensity wise) so that you can back up the workout the following day. The goal is more total volume of activity each week, let it compound and grow your fitness (as well as resiliency & physiologic reserve). Great example Keith!
Great content - thank you for the effort expended!!! I’m a 66 yo cyclist in good health. Trying to maximize my indoor training to “hit the road running” whenever it finally warms up. I do resistance training 2x week. Am I best served by Zone 2 rides? Frequency? I cycle for physical and mental health-just want to do the best I can do to maintain CV health and reserve. Striving to find the right mix. 🚴♂️
R H - without knowing your full training program, I'll keep it simple. I think building base fitness is best served with focus on Zone 1, drifting into Zone 2 accumulating as much time as possible (6 hours a week is a great goal total Zone 1/2). Once this is established and feels "easy," consider adding in some higher intensity Zone 4 type work for 20 minutes once a week is great. More than this and you're probably best served getting a coach, obtaining sub-maximal power or lactate testing to hone in on specific areas you want to work on for either health or performance (sometimes both). Hope this helps! Thanks for the great question. Oh yeah, keep up the strength training!
Exactly what I needed. Thank you for responding to my individually tailored question. I like to keep things simple, and your suggestions are much appreciated. I read so much that it at times becomes difficult to make a plan.
Thanks again for your Substack contributions, great effort and care clearly go into each monograph and I appreciate as do others your hard work.
Thanks so much for reading - I appreciate the commentary (to give me direction and feedback) and I love the interactions. Keep stacking that fitness (and health).
I’m really enjoying your articles - thank you! I do have one question. I’m 57 yoa and am pretty active (6 hour per week zone). Per my math my max HR is 147 but during some 1/2 marathons I’ve done in the last few months my HR was around 160. No pain - but wondering if that’s harmful in the long run?
Great work on 6 hours a week. This is a life changing amount of work. Max HRs are individual and as long as you feel well, you're probably fine. i doubt harmful in the long run. For more specific or optimized training zones you may benefit from a sub-maximal lactate test.
Great question Sidnie. There are some studies. Laboratory testing is best but in reality, use the talk test (once you have to take a deep breath more than every 2-3 sentences, you're probably at top of Zone 2). Studies on bisoprolol showed zones were 15-22 beats LOWER in patients on BB. So if your calculated Maffetone HR is 120, Your Zone 2 upper zone may be closer to 105 (120-15). I think using the talk/breath test or adjusting down slightly should work out well. Let me know if this works.
These rules of thumb can really be off. I am 70 this year, which would imply a max heart rate of 150 and a zone 2 ceiling using your formula of 110. I can hit mid 170s in a hard workout, I figure my max is around 185. Had a Vo2max test (50.2) and the top of my zone 2 is 143 according to the results. Try to keep my pure z2 workouts below 130, but that is still 20 higher than the formula.
Amazing work Richard - what an impressive fitness level. Thanks for sharing. It sounds like your zones are accurate based on your testing (top of zone 2 = 143). Formula is just a starting point and as we get fitter, we can push our Zone 2 HR (and capacity) higher. Further, the Zone 2 can vary day-by-day. Personally my Zone 2 ranges from 120-150 depending on sport, recovery status, altitude, etc.
Richard, I can relate. At 78, I'm hitting z2 at a little bit lower HR, but still way above either formula. Wonder if Dr Kelly could comment on whether RPE factors into his understanding.
Younger and Older ages skew the "formula" at times. It is just a starting point. Use RPE (probably 3-5 on scale of 10), talk/breath test (first deep breath corresponds to top of Zone 2) and then more specific testing such as sub-maximal lactate testing to hone in on specific areas. Hope this helps. I love the commentary and learning from each other! Jake
Just did a really hard hill session. Hit 178 on the last of six reps, which is the highest I have ever seen! Definitely not z2. What do you think that corresponds to as a maximum heart rate, I have been guessing around 185 as I said.
So hard to know. I think you need to see HR to count it personally. Gordo Byrn shared a max HR workout a while back I’ll try to look for. As long as you felt good, great work on that effort!
Any thoughts for patient's on beta blockers? Wait to take after exercise, ignore, ??
Great article though. I've shared with many friends and family.
I've been thinking of this and reread your article. I believe using the Perceived Rate of Exertion may be more appropriate instead of chasing numbers . I hope I came to a logical/useful conclusion.
Formulas, numbers and even RPE are tools and guides. Ultimately do what feels good and is repeatable! Keep it up!
Great way to get more bang for your buck.
Great article Dr. Kelly!
Thanks Jordan! Stay out of thr middle lane. Go fast or go slow!
Great stuff. I really appreciate your take on 4 x 4 protocol. It’s something that gets recommended but is entirely impractical (IMO) when it comes to sustainability and consistency.
Thanks Justin. This means a lot coming from you. I think I successfully completed the 4x4 once in my wife. It was awful. Hard to do it again. And, most of us don't even need to exercise that hard. I rarely do!
After just coming out of a hard re-set where I had totally over trained and was stressed out and sleeping poorly, this is helping me re-calibrate.
I’m a 60 yr old female and according to my Apple Watch my max HR is around 185 and my vo max hovers around 30.
It was very hard to stay under 130 bpm but also a good affirmation that less can be more. I was doing 2 Tabata workouts, one Swedish 4x4 and strength trading 2-3 x wk. For me, turned out to be totally unsustainable.
I’m sorry you were stressed, sleeping poorly and over-trained. I’m so glad you made the decision to reset and re-calibrate. Great work with the HR cap. Personally, since my late 30s, I’ve found it difficult to do more than 1 hard day per week. The goal is to stay 50 weeks in a row of a similar program - this is where real gains come from. Sustainable, repeatable workload that stack and compound. Keep up the great work Lisa!
Love the article Jake and the great community of questions here! Thank you. One question for you... Every Sunday I play this sport called ultimate football (similar to ultimate Frisbee but we use a football). The game lasts about 2.5 hours and involves many bursts of running at full capacity with short rests. As a 50 year old my endurance is generally as good or better than the people I play with who are 20-30 years younger. Wondering where sports like this fit in the model? I think there's a lot of zone 4 (and 3) effort there. The fun aspect of playing it with this wonderful community has been a priceless for me and my health. Gives me a goal every week for learning my body on a more subtle level as it concerns recovery, training and strength. The joy component is a game changer and something I recommend to clients and friends to find and continue with once they do. Thanks again for all you do!
Shai - Thanks for sharing & engaging. I love ultimate Frisbee and it sounds like the football version is also great. I would treat this workout as your primary high intensity workout of the week with Zone 3, 4, 5. The remainder of your week is supportive recovery work - baseline Zone 0 (think 10k steps a day, taking the stairs, more standing, generally being active) and base building/maintaining Zone 1 & 2 (think Maffetone HR cap as a starting point). Based on your fitness, you might be able to do a short interval Zone 4/5 session mid-week. Here's how I would structure it if it were me: Saturday - EZ day 0-60 minute Zone 1. Sunday - hard/fun/long Game, Monday - EZ day - (off) to 60 minutes Zone 1. Tuesday: Zone 2 (aim for 60 minutes), Wednesday Zone 1 build to Zone 2 60 minutes, Thursday Primarily Zone 1-2 60 minutes (could be day to do a short interval session 12-16 minutes of higher intensity with equal recovery if you feel it helps), Friday 60 minutes Zone 1-2. Keep up the great work and life is about enjoyment.
This is such a detailed post; I'll have to read and re-read a few times to store these lessons in my memory bank. I really appreciate these specific details because I can instantly match each step with what I have done exercising throughout my adult life - most of my adult years precede Garmin watches and other user-friendly data-gathering devices! If most of your readers glean even half of what I do, they, like me, are learning useful lifetime information. Our Bodies, Our Health. No one else is in charge - not our mommy, not our doctor, not our spouse. Thank you for User Friendly Education that is FREE!
Thanks for reading Lillie. I'm glad you're getting something out of this and these articles. I find that folks who exercise or listen to their bodies without devices can learn to use devices really well. Never rely on a watch, device or app. Listen to your body and "feel" how you are doing. Then verify with a device, app, etc. Thank you for the wonderful comments. Let's keep learning together!
Spot on with the one time per week going hard. My “hard” day is a mountain bike ride. Done more than once per week (especially in the heat) is a recipe for excessive fatigue, crappy sleep, uncontrollable hunger. Once per week, however, keeps me sharp.
This is perfect. Personally, I have to be motivated to go harder. The key is to only work hard enough (intensity wise) so that you can back up the workout the following day. The goal is more total volume of activity each week, let it compound and grow your fitness (as well as resiliency & physiologic reserve). Great example Keith!
Great content - thank you for the effort expended!!! I’m a 66 yo cyclist in good health. Trying to maximize my indoor training to “hit the road running” whenever it finally warms up. I do resistance training 2x week. Am I best served by Zone 2 rides? Frequency? I cycle for physical and mental health-just want to do the best I can do to maintain CV health and reserve. Striving to find the right mix. 🚴♂️
Many Thanks!
R H - without knowing your full training program, I'll keep it simple. I think building base fitness is best served with focus on Zone 1, drifting into Zone 2 accumulating as much time as possible (6 hours a week is a great goal total Zone 1/2). Once this is established and feels "easy," consider adding in some higher intensity Zone 4 type work for 20 minutes once a week is great. More than this and you're probably best served getting a coach, obtaining sub-maximal power or lactate testing to hone in on specific areas you want to work on for either health or performance (sometimes both). Hope this helps! Thanks for the great question. Oh yeah, keep up the strength training!
Exactly what I needed. Thank you for responding to my individually tailored question. I like to keep things simple, and your suggestions are much appreciated. I read so much that it at times becomes difficult to make a plan.
Thanks again for your Substack contributions, great effort and care clearly go into each monograph and I appreciate as do others your hard work.
Thanks so much for reading - I appreciate the commentary (to give me direction and feedback) and I love the interactions. Keep stacking that fitness (and health).
I’m really enjoying your articles - thank you! I do have one question. I’m 57 yoa and am pretty active (6 hour per week zone). Per my math my max HR is 147 but during some 1/2 marathons I’ve done in the last few months my HR was around 160. No pain - but wondering if that’s harmful in the long run?
Great work on 6 hours a week. This is a life changing amount of work. Max HRs are individual and as long as you feel well, you're probably fine. i doubt harmful in the long run. For more specific or optimized training zones you may benefit from a sub-maximal lactate test.
Great question Sidnie. There are some studies. Laboratory testing is best but in reality, use the talk test (once you have to take a deep breath more than every 2-3 sentences, you're probably at top of Zone 2). Studies on bisoprolol showed zones were 15-22 beats LOWER in patients on BB. So if your calculated Maffetone HR is 120, Your Zone 2 upper zone may be closer to 105 (120-15). I think using the talk/breath test or adjusting down slightly should work out well. Let me know if this works.